Teaching Crucial Conversations: The Curse of Knowledge & the ASK Problem

4 09 2012

One of the most interesting conversations that I had recently was at the ABIM Foundation Summer Forum Open Space Sessions.  The ABIM Foundation Summer Forum is a summit of thought leaders and experts representing healthcare organizations, policymakers, patients, payers, doctors, and trainees who come together to tackle a major problem in healthcare.  The topic of this year’s forum was in keeping with the launch of the new ABIM Choosing Wisely Campaign and aptly named “Choosing Wisely in an Era of Limited Resources.”

The Forum has a unique format, employing a mix of routine panel discussions, but also “Open Space” conversations where participants actually drive the agenda, deciding what they want to work on.  One of the Open Space topics that I ended up joining was on how to train physicians to have crucial conversations with patients.   After forming this group, there were some immediate questions raised– why only physicians?  What about other members of the care team, including the patient?  Moreover, individuals in our group each had a different definition of what  “crucial conversations” were.  One clear theme was around end-of-life conversations with patients, but that was not the only one.  For example, how to talk to a patient who is asking for a medical test that is not indicated?

As I returned home, I reread some of the literature I have become acquainted with on why we (humans) don’t communicate as well as we should.  Using this framework, it’s worth considering why doctors and patients may not communicate as well as they should.  Drawing from the knowledge communication literature when an ‘expert’ is communicating to a ‘decision maker’, two distinct problems can arise:

  • Curse of Knowledge– The curse of knowledge, otherwise known as the paradox of expertise, represents the difficulty of experts to use commonplace jargon to communicate their ideas to those that are not experts.  Because experts tend to surround themselves with other experts, it can be very difficult for an expert not to use technical jargon when communicating with people who not experts.  This is easily evident in a variety of scenarios – most notably in the first few seconds of the trailer for the movie Contagion when doctors try to tell Matt Damon that his wife, played by index case Gwyneth Paltrow, is dead.  The doctor starts by saying “I am sorry…she failed to respond”.  On cue, Matt Damon responds, “OK can I go talk to her?” clearly missing the meaning of what the doctor has just tried to communicate.  Likewise, one of the patient advocates at our table shared the story of how she came to know she had cancer – “It’s malignant” …so she deduced from “Mal” and all the words that start with “mal” are bad (malice, malpractice…to name a few) so she thought “Mal … bad”.
  • ASK Problem – the ASK Problem stands for the Anomalous State of Knowledge.  This is a problem that arises when the decision maker does not have the knowledge that it takes to ask questions, since asking questions often relies on having intimate knowledge of the subject at hand.   This is particularly salient since we have major campaigns that often are directed at patients to “ask more questions” of their doctor.  However, it may be very hard for a nonexpert to ask a question of an expert if they don’t have a set of common knowledge to go on.  Asking questions is so difficult that our work shows its rare for even physicians to ask other physicians questions, and instead they opt for what is known as “back-channeling” or saying “Uh-huh” to indicate their agreement.  The only problem with this is that back-channeling is that it can be exhibited by demented patients so it is not necessarily a confirmation of comprehension or understanding.  To make matters worse, a recent study shows that patients may not ask questions for fear of being labeled “difficult”.

How can we get around these problems? Well, improving a conversation requires training on all sides. Patients can also be coached to take a more active role in their care. However, healthcare personnel also need to be prepared so that their newly empowered patients are not an unwelcome surprise. Physicians and other healthcare personnel need to be trained in how to speak to patients about difficult decisions in a sensitive way.   One model curriculum we can learn from has been developed by oncology fellowship directors and is called OncoTalk.  One of the key tenants is the principle of NURSE, which describes how to respond to patient emotions during complex decision-making.

  • Naming the emotion “It sounds like you are afraid of X”
  • Understanding the emotion  “I can understand the fear that goes along with X.”
  • Respecting  “You are asking the right questions…”
  • Supporting  “I am here to support you through this decision…”
  • Exploring  “What are you thinking about now?”

Of course, the age-old question is can you teach empathy? Well, according to one recent study, empathy wanes throughout medical school.   So we should, at the very least, try to at least preserve it.

Vineet Arora MD





Transforming Medical Education: Trust, Time, Teams & Technology

28 11 2011

This past Thanksgiving, I was able to reflect on the always jam-packed and inspiring Association of American Medical Colleges 2011 Meeting that took place earlier this month in Denver.  The theme of the meeting was transformation.  It was certainly an interesting theme with the undertones of economic recession and the GME funding crisis- and that was before the failure of the Supercommittee to reach a resolution.  So, how does medical education need to transform?  In more ways than one, it turns out.  So here are just 4 that were the recurring themes of the meeting and being a fan of alliteration, they all begin with “T”.

  • Trust – it was clear that we need to restore the Americans people trust in physicians and in the medical education process.  While students enter medicine to make a difference, something that they see in their journey to becoming a physician makes them jaded and they sometimes lose sight of their initial intention. Is it debt, burnout, role models…Or likely some combination of the 3? It does not matter, because we have to restore their faith in teaching– yes teaching.  Teaching is the heart and soul of our medical education and it is sometimes the easiest to lose in an academic health center focused on NIH dollars or US news world report rankings.  In addition to teaching our students, it is time to teach another constituency, our patients and Congress about the critical need for medical education.   And in fact, advocacy is something we need to be teaching our own trainees so they can engage in the dialogue regarding the future of healthcare.
  • Time- perhaps the most radical proposal advanced was by Victor Fuchs who suggested that we radically redesign medical school to have medical students specialize 2 years after medical school and enter specific pathways like they do in many other countries and in other fields.  I’m all for shortening dwell time for our medical trainees, but I am not so sure that young people are ready to make a serious commitment about what they want to do at such an early age.  There has to be a middle ground since at the same time, one of the most well attended sessions was “who cares about the 4th year of medical school?” which included many insightful comments about the need for reflection and consolidation of core skills.  So, clearly not all time is easily tossed to the waste side.
  • Teams- given the projected shortage of over 90,000 physicians by 2020, it is important to reorganize care into teams.  While there is a lot of controversy about what to call nurses who have PhDs, that was not the focus of the meeting. It was about how can you encourage everyone to practice to their highest level of certification.  Team based competences have actually been developed by several groups and have been advanced by many schools with inter professional learning.  One difficulty we face at home is that we don’t have allied health professions, but we are brainstorming how to involve actual nurses and pharmacists in training medical students.
  • Technology -there was a lot of discussion about technology to boost medical education.  There was even a technology in medical education abstract session moderated by @motherinmedicine and including podcasts, iPads, and social media in medicine.  Perhaps the most interesting speaker was Chuck Friedman at the University of Michigan who is the former technology czar of the US and eloquently highlighted the need for moving medical education from wrote memorization to a distributed knowledge where the most important information future physicians will need to know is not what the information is off the top of their head BUT how to access information.  He went so far to say testing would move to “unassisted testing” followed by “cloud-supported testing” which would then merge into a pass or fail based on performance on both.  I know all of us who certified or recertified recently would welcome assistance from the cloud- it is after all the closest approximation to real medicine.  However, my hands down favorite moment of this session was when someone astutely asked what about these physicians when the power goes out or when the computer system fries.  His response was simple and so spot on… “Dont get me started on the state of IT in our teaching hospitals”.
So, while we just celebrated a holiday and accompanying ritual to give thanks, it is now time for medical educators to transcend the traditional status quo and instead test novel techniques to transform medical training — not only to restore public trust but so we can also train the trainees who will treat us in the future.
–Vineet Arora MD




Whittling Costs in White Coats

10 08 2011

At the beginning of last week, I was excited to be invited to take part in the ABIM Foundation Summer Forum, where the who’s who in medicine convened to discuss how to create a sustainable healthcare system, where costs are controlled and quality of care is preserved.   We heard some bold vision and ideas, many of which were focused on badly needed policy levers or system redesign.  However, as I ended my week on Sunday with investing Pritzker’s new medical student class with their white coats, I was wondering how we can teach and empower individual trainees to do their part.  As our speaker highlighted so eloquently, the most powerful thing about the white coat is what and who is in it…and also the learning that takes place in it.  So, in that vein, here are some thoughts for what students and residents can do.

  • Read up on the topic – some excellent resources I heard about at the meeting
  1. Physician Stewardship of Health Care in an Era of Finite Resources– a recent article in JAMA by Drs. Chris Cassel and David Reuben regarding the various levels of stewardship
  2. Personal Reflections on the High Cost of American Medical Care – a recent article in Archives of Internal Medicine by Dr. Steven Schroeder
  3. The Pricing Of U.S. Hospital Services: Chaos Behind A Veil Of Secrecy – a classic by noted economist Uwe Reinhardt
  4. Less is More Series – a great resource in Archives of Internal Medicine edited by Rosemary Gibson and others.
  • Listen to the patient  Of course, this sounds simple…but the truth is that more times than not, the answer is in the patient history.   With duty hours and workload, taking a detailed history sometimes takes a backseat to reviewing the electronic iPatient.  One approach is to start with two open questions:  (1) Tell me about yourself; and (2) What are your healthcare goals?   Often, the key is to try to understand the baseline.  I once took care of an older patient who had abdominal pain and had received over 40 abdominal CTs over the past several years.  When we were able to gather more information from the patient and her family, it turns out that she has had bad abdominal pain for over 30 years that would come and go!   By working this information into her discharge summary and plugging her into primary care, our hope was to have her avoid future costly and harmful workups.  As I’ve mentioned before, students often have more time with patients than residents or attendings and can often take the most helpful and detailed history!
  • Learn the physical exam Often times, we rely on tests since we do not trust our physical exams.   It is too easy to get an echo when you are wondering if you are truly hearing a murmur.  The lore here is that you need to  listen to a lot of normals to be able to detect the abnormal.  Because of this, when I am on service, I usually invite the third year student to examine every patient with me so they can see a lot of exams.  Usually by the end, they are more confident in their ability to detect crackles or murmurs.  As stated by our white coat speaker, the stethoscope is indeed a powerful tool.  Interestingly, with the infectious increase in global health experiences among medical students and residents, working in resource poor settings requires ingenuity and reliance on the lowest technologically feasible solution.   Closer to home, volunteering in a free clinic is likely to provide one with the same experiences.
  • Don’t just check boxes but ask why the test is indicated Trainees can ask the difficult question – why are we ordering this test or medication?  Is it indicated?   An even better question to research is whether there is a CHEAPER (we can’t shy away from using that word anymore) alternative that would provide the same information?   For example, before every PE protocol CT or Doppler to rule out DVT, I always ask my team to calculate the Wells score so we understand if the test is indicated and what our pretest probability is.  In addition, every study has a downside, whether it be hospital-acquired anemia from phlebotomy or incidentalomas and pseudodisease from excessive imaging.  It is easy to check boxes, it is harder to question why you are checking them.
  • Try to find out how much the test costs While the answer is elusive, the goal is to start the conversation in your own backyard.  There are anecdotal reports of residents going back over 10 years who have tried to work with their hospital billing departments to find out how much things cost.  Moreover, greater knowledge of costs will change practice patterns as we’ve discussed before.
  • Counsel patients One impressive thing about the ABIM Foundation Forum was the representation of patient advocacy groups who were willing to partner with physicians and physician groups to reduce the costs of care.  While the image that may immediately come to mind most is of a patient coming in to request a test that is not indicated, engaged and informed patients expressed the desire to work together and that less is more.   In some communities, there is a lot of distrust of the medical care system and these conversations have to start one patient at a time.

Unfortunately, whittling healthcare costs is not as easy as teaching trainees.  As long as our systems and the faculty within them promote costly workarounds such as misrepresenting tests as urgent to expedite them, ordering tests as fast as possible for fear of discharge delay, or wasteful lab testing, trainees will be reprimanded for NOT doing something.  Therefore, to truly make change in our teaching hospitals, we must also ask that our faculty reach deep into their own white coats and find the courage to say “Don’t just do something, stand there.”

–Vineet Arora, MD








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